Tithing and the NT Church
I’ve been tossing this around for a while and thought it was time to throw it out there. I’ve discussed tithing with several ministers, most notably in this thread, and the argument is generally the same. It usually looks like this: Abraham commenced it, Moses commanded it, Jesus commended it, Paul continued it. I even ran across a guy who tried to take it all the way back to Abel, but that was just silly. However, as good as their argument sounds, here are 2 propositions that the tithe proponents need to overcome in order to advance their argument. I believe I can prove them Biblically, but for now I’ll just state them and see if anyone cares to refute them.
Proposition 1: The Bible has no record of God commanding His people in general to give 10% of their regular income.
Proposition 2: The Bible has no record of a saint (OT or NT) giving 10% of their regular income on a regular basis.
Feel free to throw down your counterproofs in the combox. Really, all you need is one instance of either of those occurences to topple my argument here. And if you’re going to teach that the tithe is a requirement for believers, you better be able to show that someone, somewhere in the Bible actually did it the way you are telling people to.
Tagged as Tithing + Categorized as Theology
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The command to tithe was included in the law and Abraham did pay a tithe to Melchizedec. The onus is on you to prove no one tithed in the NT. Tithing was well established in the OT so it would be very difficult to believe NO ONE in the NT followed suit.
The Book of Hebrews did equate Abraham’s tithe with Moses Law. For a discussion on these issues check out the following two posts:
http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/07/the-long-history-of-tithing/
http://nowthinkaboutit.com/2009/07/jesus-didnt-re-teach-tithing/
And, what people do has no bearing on Bible truth. Many of God’s people fornicated and committed murder but we don’t make the assumption those things weren’t spoken against.
EnnisP, welcome to the blog. Thanks for stopping by. I read your articles and appreciate your perspective. It seems like you’ve thought about this a little bit more than most tithe proponents.
I think you may be missing what I’m doing here, though. See, tithing proponents generally say that a believer is required to give 10% of their income to God. Some, like you I’m guessing, add in windfall and benefits, etc., etc. So, if this is a command of God for believers, I’m just saying we should see (1) God clearly commanding it in the Bible, and (2) somebody actually doing it in the Bible.
Let’s look at your examples. Abraham paying tithes to Melchizedek does not answer either of the 2 propositions. First, God didn’t command it, Abraham gave of his own volition. Secondly, it was not a tithe of regular income, but rather the spoils of war, of which he actually kept none.
The OT law does not meet the criteria here either. The fact is that if you study the tithe in the OT you come to one of two conclusions. Either there were three separate tithes, or the people tithed every 3 years. The only place the OT describes the frequency of the tithe, it says every third year. And since some of the descriptions of the tithe are different in different places, some scholars have assumed that there were actually 3 different tithes, one of them every third year which equals out to about 23% of a person’s income. Or, some scholars believe that all the references to the tithe were talking about the same tithe in which case that tithe fell every third year for a total of 3% of a person’s regular income. And the tithing command didn’t seem to be incumbent on all Israelites. Can you show where it was commanded of people who weren’t farmers or ranchers to tithe? Like, say carpenters?
So again, we have no mention of God commanding 10% of regular income. It was actually either 3% or 23% which support the priesthood and poor in a theocracy which made it essentially a tax. And we have no mention of someone actually giving 10% of their regular income.
On the second post you reference you said, “Those who wish to deny tithing for the New Testament must do two things: One, they must present some very strong and clear, non-emotional, evidence to prove it is no longer a valid life principle and two, they must tell us what to do instead.” First, if you are wishing to establish a command from Scripture, then the onus is on you to show strong, clear, non-emotional evidence for that command. Second, here’s my strong, clear, non-emotional evidence: God never commanded anyone to give 10% and no one in the Bible actually gave 10%.
As far as telling you what to do instead, I’ll try to devote a full blog post to what NT giving looks like. It seems that you think God has to completely spell things out in order for us to do something. Someone on your blog astutely commented that God gives general commands to NT believers and allows the Holy Spirit to work out the details in our lives. Like, for example, “Husbands love your wives”. The general principle is given, but the details are not discretely spelled out. Same thing with giving. We’re commanded to give, and given general principles about giving (which I’ll try to establish in a later blog post), but not the specifics.
Also, you made the following argument in your blog post: “The only two things Jesus could have done relative to tithing was one, deny it outright, which He did not do, or two, make strong statements which reinforced the idea philosophically and that is what He did (Matt. 6:19-34).” First, I didn’t see the tithe mentioned anywhere in that passage, just laying up treasure in Heaven. If your position is that tithing is the way to lay up treasure in Heaven, I’d like to see that shown from the context of the passage. Secondly, your argument proves too much. Let’s use the same form to establish something I don’t think any NT believer does: “The only two things Jesus could have done relative to the temple tax was one, deny it outright, which He did not do, or two, make strong statements which reinforced the idea philosophically and that is what He did (Matthew 17:24-27).” So, do you pay a temple tax? Does your church charge for attendance? I kind of doubt it. See, you’ve committed an either/or fallacy. As if those are the only choices available for Christ to do. There’s also at least a third option. Do not address it. Let the tenor of His teachings and the remainder of the NT establish for a believer what his responsibility is in giving. Your either/or fallacy can be disastrous in other cases as well. “The only two things Paul could have done relative to slavery was one, decry it outright, which he did not do, or two, make strong statements which reinforced the idea (Philemon).” Ouch. Or, he could have not dealt with the issue and let the principles in Scripture establish what a believer should do.
Not everything is spelled out in detail for us in the NT. In fact, most things are not spelled out in detail in the Scripture. Like the exact proportion for giving.
Here are the issues:
Tithing is clearly not a one passage concept. To get it right, all passages must be taken into consideration (Scripture interprets Scripture). And the Bible has a lot to say about tithing. There is more in the Bible about tithing than there is about the Trinity. If you are going to argue against one you will have to eliminate the other also.
I think is it impractical to assume that the tithe covered every possible expense in the OT. Abraham tithed before there was a nation and even spiritually things became more complex under the law. Naturally, expenses would have been diverse and increased. We should expect other offerings and even taxes to be taken for various purposes.
It isn’t reasonable to use these different offerings to smoke screen or misdirect the discussion on tithes. Either ten percent of our increase belongs to God or it doesn’t. How we spend it is a matter of practical application. God only gave general instruction for allocating the tithes and he obviously credits us with enough sense to manage the funds in our day. The “every third year tithe” was addressing the allocation of funds not the frequency. It was allocated for charitable purposes, which I am very much for, and many churches today are catching on to that also. The other two thirds would have been allocated for specified purposes, levites and priests.
BTW, In regard to non-proponents of tithing, I know many who don’t believe in tithing who encourage people to give at least 20% of their income. I don’t agree with the reasoning but I do acknowledge their sense. It is not fiscally reasonable to expect ministries to operate on less than a tithe taken from the people they serve.
I have answered the Abraham and Jacob tithes arguments in three different posts especially thisone. There is a lot of misdirection and smoke screening being passed around about tithing for these two men. The fact that Abraham paid tithes on the spoils of a particular war argues for tithing on everything else, not against it.
Even your remark about “regular income” is imposing on the text modern ideas about pay periods, budgets, regulated wages and so on. The Bible uses the idea of “increase.” They didn’t get paid regularly but they did accumulate wealth and I am sure the ancients knew how to measure the increase and make appropriate offerings when necessary.
And slavery? Paul didn’t address that issue because the OT said plenty already and slavery in his day was relatively fair compared to other times historically, especially ours. Luke was a slave who earned medical qualifications as a slave and eventually earned his freedom.
Gotta go. Bravo to you for allowing my comments. Others haven’t.
oh, Mark….i can just see Tim’s face!
Okay, here we go again.
“Tithing is clearly not a one passage concept.”
I didn’t say it was, but I figured you could at least provide one. And just because the word tithe is used more than trinity in the Bible doesn’t establish your position. And just because I reject your view of the tithe based on Biblical evidence, that doesn’t invalidate my view of the Trinity. That’s just silly.
“I think is it impractical to assume that the tithe covered every possible expense in the OT. Abraham tithed before there was a nation and even spiritually things became more complex under the law. Naturally, expenses would have been diverse and increased. We should expect other offerings and even taxes to be taken for various purposes. ”
Of course it didn’t. That’s why they had temple taxes and freewill offerings and taxes from the monarchy etc., etc. The tithe was to support the Levitical priesthood, the widows, and the poor. Oh, and also to party, I mean, feast. Yeah, one of the three tithes was supposed to be consumed by the person offering it. And if you couldn’t travel all the way to Jerusalem to give that tithe, then you could sell it and go buy yourself something to enjoy, like food, wine, strong drink, etc. How does that teaching of the tithe fit into your view of giving?
“Either ten percent of our increase belongs to God or it doesn’t.”
Yes, now we’re getting to the heart of it. Can you show this from Scripture? Most of us would say that it all belongs to God. I’m sure you would affirm that, but you go further and say that we are required to give 10% back to Him. I just want to know where you get this idea. Where in the Bible does it teach that I am required to give God 10%? There is no record in Scripture where someone did that and no revelation from God requiring people to. All you have is arguments like, “Well, even though it doesn’t say it, I’m sure God told Abraham to tithe. And even though the tithe he gave wasn’t on his increase, I’m sure he did that too because God must have told him to.”
“God only gave general instruction for allocating the tithes and he obviously credits us with enough sense to manage the funds in our day.”
But wasn’t one of your arguments that God doesn’t credit us with enough sense to make decisions like this ourselves so he has to specify an exact amount?
“The “every third year tithe” was addressing the allocation of funds not the frequency. It was allocated for charitable purposes, which I am very much for, and many churches today are catching on to that also. The other two thirds would have been allocated for specified purposes, levites and priests.”
Every third year sure sounds like a frequency. So do you tell believers that every third year they are required to give a tenth of their annual increase for the support of widows and the poor? If not, then why did that aspect of the law change? Our argument has been that the levitical code is not applicable to NT believers and you said that there is carryover. So does this carry over?
“It is not fiscally reasonable to expect ministries to operate on less than a tithe taken from the people they serve. ”
We don’t tell people they’re commanded by God to do something based on fiscal responsibility but rather on Biblical teachings. Some years back, I actually had a pastor once tell me that he couldn’t stop teaching the tithe as a command because then people would stop giving and he’d be out of a job. My jaw dropped too low for me to respond. If you’re teaching something as Scripturally binding on a believer based on how much money you need, you have serious problems.
“I have answered the Abraham and Jacob tithes arguments in three different posts especially thisone. There is a lot of misdirection and smoke screening being passed around about tithing for these two men. The fact that Abraham paid tithes on the spoils of a particular war argues for tithing on everything else, not against it.”
Yeah, I read that post. I don’t really put any stock in the paid vs. gave stuff. I think they can be used interchangeably but I don’t think that really effects the argument. You say this: “Oh, and BTW, Abraham probably did not pay tithes on his personal wealth in Genesis 14 because he would have consistently and regularly taken care of this as needed. The fact he paid tithes following a battle with warring tribes shows his dedication to the principle under all circumstances. The fact he paid the tithe on the wealth of unbelievers shows it to be universal in application.” You are stretching Scripture to the breaking point here. Who did he pay it to? Did he trek once a year to see Melchizedek? Did he set it aside for his great-grandson Levi? Did he burn it in offering? It doesn’t say. And when you take into account the fact that giving a tenth portion was a common ANE custom, it doesn’t seem so surprising that Abraham freely decided to give a tenth without the revelation of God. You have Abraham being dedicated to a principle that has never been established. The idea of a tenth was just a common amount to give because it was easy to figure in the days before computers and calculators. The common man could calculate a tenth. And even if God did tell Abraham to give a tenth, that doesn’t make it a command that extends to NT believers. God commanded Abe to circumcise his son. Is circumcision still a requirement? Before you say that people still circumcise and so on, that is not the question. Does your church tell parents that they are required, based on God’s commands to Abe and the Isrealites, REQUIRED to circumcise their sons?
“Even your remark about “regular income” is imposing on the text modern ideas about pay periods, budgets, regulated wages and so on. The Bible uses the idea of “increase.””
Wrong. In some cases the Bible uses the idea of increase when it comes to the tithe, but with ranchers, it is essentially assets. Do you tell people to tithe off of assets? For a rancher, he had to pass all his cattle under the rod and take every tenth. And the next year he would pass the same cattle, along with the ones that had been added, and do it again. So do I need to tithe off of my savings account? My current investments (not just the interest, the principal)? And what if I’m really a rancher or a farmer. Should I bring a tenth of my cattle or a tenth of my harvest in to church? If my wife plants a vegetable garden in the back, should I bring a tenth of the veggies in to church? That’s what the pharisees did, and Jesus commended it. Why did it change? Why did this aspect of the Levitical code not carry over?
“And slavery? Paul didn’t address that issue because the OT said plenty already and slavery in his day was relatively fair compared to other times historically, especially ours. Luke was a slave who earned medical qualifications as a slave and eventually earned his freedom.”
Wait, what? Are you advocating slavery here? I think you missed the point of that argument. The argument is thus: You said Jesus could have done one of two things regarding the tithe. He could have abolished it or He could have made statements that seem to affirm it. I said that argument is invalid because if I use the same form of argument, I can show that slavery is okay for NT believers (Paul didn’t flatly decry slavery and told Philemon to go back to his master). Since my argument about slavery is unsound (I really hope you agree that it is), it shows that the form of the argument is unsound, thereby rendering yours unsound. It is unsound because it is an either/or fallacy.
I’m going to post some thoughts on a Biblical view of giving and then I will probably be done with this discussion. You never actually answered the question of the post. You’ve taken a mathematical term and turned it into a command for believers. And any attempt we try to make to show you what the tithe really meant in the OT, you label a smokescreen. I don’t know what more we can do.
@Abbey – Yeah, Tim and I have had good discussions on this topic before. We’re actually on the same page on this. I’ll have to send him the link and maybe he’ll jump in.
Sorry I took so long in getting back. But…
You said.
But wasn’t one of your arguments that God doesn’t credit us with enough sense to make decisions like this ourselves so he has to specify an exact amount?
I have never said or suggested anything like that. Please don’t twist my words. I said there needs to be a fair and equal plan for CONTRIBUTING. People would like to know what they should do. How we spend it is another matter altogether and is not the topic of any post on my blog. There are “guidelines” for this also but is a discussion for another occasion. First, we must argue the giving issue.
Following is an example of what I call smoke screening and misdirection. Discussing Abraham’s tithe, you said…
You are stretching Scripture to the breaking point here. Who did he pay it to? Did he trek once a year to see Melchizedek? Did he set it aside for his great-grandson Levi? Did he burn it in offering? It doesn’t say. And when you take into account the fact that giving a tenth portion was a common ANE custom, it doesn’t seem so surprising that Abraham freely decided to give a tenth without the revelation of God. You have Abraham being dedicated to a principle that has never been established. The idea of a tenth was just a common amount to give because it was easy to figure in the days before computers and calculators. The common man could calculate a tenth. And even if God did tell Abraham to give a tenth, that doesn’t make it a command that extends to NT believers. God commanded Abe to circumcise his son. Is circumcision still a requirement? Before you say that people still circumcise and so on, that is not the question. Does your church tell parents that they are required, based on God’s commands to Abe and the Isrealites, REQUIRED to circumcise their sons?
Who cares! He either tithed or he didn’t. All of those are interesting questions but making the assumption that there wasn’t a reasonable way to execute this responsibility is not a reasonable response. Regarding circumcision, I don’t command it but most medical institutions still recommend it highly and most people have it done. It is considered the medically smart thing to do. The only reason we don’t argue about it is it doesn’t cost us anything.
As to the revelation question we don’t know how or exactly when it began as a practice but there is no question it was common to Abraham’s tradition and God did honor it later in the law. You can argue that isn’t the case but you will never prove it.
Regarding the slave issue, you said…
Wait, what? Are you advocating slavery here? I think you missed the point of that argument.
Why would you suggest I am advocating slavery? This discussion should include sound arguments not accusations. There is no comparison between slavery and tithing. One was often inhumane and wicked (although that wasn’t the case with Philemon) and the other (tithing) was never criminal. That is actually the point. Jesus nor Paul said anything about either because they had both been addressed elsewhere.
I, and I guess others, still await you thoughts on how any sincere person can make a decision on how much and when to give. I may not agree with what you say but I am sure I could respect it more than arguing about the tithe.
You said that if we didn’t have the teaching on the tithe we would be thrown in the dark and prone to emotional decision making when it came to giving. That sure sounded like we can’t be credited with enough sense to make a decision about giving without being specified an amount.
How we spend it is not another matter if you’re arguing for the levitical form of tithing. You keep saying that it carries over but then you only carry the smallest part over. Its like you’re carrying over the term without any of the attending instructions for it. If you want to argue that we are still under the levitical command of tithing, then you have to show why we are not under the attending rules and frequencies and actual amounts. And why those of us who are not farmers and ranchers have to tithe when there is no tithe specified for other types of professions. Is there carryover or isn’t there. You previously said yes, and then backtracked to say that everything the Bible says about tithing is not relevant.
And those questions are not smoke-screening. You said its obvious that tithing off of increase was a part of Abraham’s tradition. Its not at all obvious because its not recorded in Scripture. And those questions are very good questions that you must overcome if you’re going to assume that he tithed the way you said he did. You are making the assumption because your position is the affirmative position. All I have to show is that your assumption is not based in actual Scripture. And just because Abraham followed an ANE custom doesn’t mean God instructed him to do so. It only follows to you because you are trying to make Scripture support your position.
And why don’t you teach circumcision as a COMMAND. God COMMANDED it of Abraham, and COMMANDED it of the Israelites. The best argument you can use is that the Jerusalem council said they didn’t have to. But now you’re stuck because when the Jerusalem council decided what parts of the law the NT church should follow to avoid offense, they didn’t include tithing.
You’re still completely missing the point of the slavery argument. Your argument was that the NT doesn’t come out and clearly denounce the tithe as an old covenant requirement that is not binding on the new covenant. I said it doesn’t have to come right out and say it because that is not the standard for establishing something as truth. If it were, then Christians should be advocating slavery since God did not end it in the old covenant law and Paul told Onesimus, the slave, to go back to his master, Philemon. By your own standard of proof, slavery is okay. This was done to show how unsound your argument is. It is not an accusation, but an argumentation technique to show how an argument is unsound by applying the exact same form of the argument in a way that shows it to be ridiculous. Unless you support slavery.
I posted an alternative Biblical view of giving on my blog. Feel free to check it out.